* We provide care to hetero, bi, lesbian, queer, and questioning women; trans and gender non-conforming individuals; and women with DSDs who were female assigned at birth. We are currently working to expand of trans and gender non-conforming affirmative health care services and enhance our health information and referral services to people and families affected by disorders of sex development. We are committed to working with all of our clients to provide care that respects individuals’ relationships with their bodies and gender identities. We are currently not able to provide care to trans people who were male assigned at birth or who have had genital sex reassignment surgery. Please call for referrals.
Silly rabbit, “trans” doesn’t mean you, let alone “woman”. So what is it that makes trans women untreatable? It’s not specified, simply waved away.
What kinds of health needs do trans women have that other women don’t, that they’d be so unable to provide? A prescription for hormones? A blood test to make sure we don’t get blood clots? Not exactly different from other forms of HRT or the contraceptive pill. Scans for breast cancer? Oh they have those, just not for us.
incite’s new orleans womens health center has always been a becon of inspiration for me as a reproductive justice community organizer and health worker. but whoa. i didnt remember reading this section of their statement. or better yet i know that i read it and but didnt read it. you know?
and then i remember rose telling me how women and trans folk spaces often mean -no trans women allowed-
fuck.
well then i would like to put to those of you who are going to amc this year and woc are getting to sit down and have a conversation about who we are…
could someone push the question of what does it mean that the project that is community organizing face of incite! is trans phobic? does this policy only apply to the clinic or does it represent all of incite! and what is the goal of being trans exclusive? who does it serve?
This is so disappointing. I’m pretty sure I read their mission statement too, and don’t remember that part at all– and I’m pretty sensitive/on the look at for trans-misogyny and the explicit inclusion (or exclusion) of trans women. I wonder if that part is a relatively new addition (to the website), maybe because incoming trans patients made it necessary to clarify?
Which of course is neither here nor there to the disappointment.
well then i would like to put to those of you who are going to amc this year and woc are getting to sit down and have a conversation about who we are…
could someone push the question of what does it mean that the project that is community organizing face of incite! is trans phobic? does this policy only apply to the clinic or does it represent all of incite! and what is the goal of being trans exclusive? who does it serve?
& I definitely want to be a part of these conversations. I wonder too– would folks be into writing letters to the health center? especially maybe folks who are active in INCITE! (there’s no local chapter where i live, but i feel like if official members are speaking up about this, it’ll be better heard maybe?) i feel like getting a bunch of feedback to the effect of “y’all do amazing work and we really want to support you, but we can’t get behind the exclusion of trans women” could be a useful place to start.
oh lawd…and they will buzz about, the words will be sanitized off the website, and the hate and exculsion that woc preach and practice towards trans woc will go on.
Puhleeeze! you sound like the white feminists when confronted with one of their many racist faux pas.
You didn’t know it was there because you don’t give a rat’s ass about twoc, that’s why!
That said, actions, not words.
maybe because incoming trans patients made it necessary to clarify?
yes. trans women of color foolishly thought they would be welcome among cis women, and the cis women had to slap their asses down. Because cis women have this fucking NEED to trash us, as you so eloquently put:
“it became necessary” when mis hermanas sought health care from their sorry cis asses.
Simple as that, which is why it slid right past you. You simply did not give a shit. Go have your conversations, cuz if this slides past you, you are the perfect advocate for us. smh
voz, i don’t know if you were addressing me in particular, but “it became necessary” was not an endorsement in any way. perhaps it was a poor choice of words, but i was speculating that *they* felt it was necessary to clarify. i am well aware that the issue isn’t that they can’t treat trans women but that they won’t.
beyond that, i give a shit. my partner is a trans woman of color and i care deeply whether or not she has access to good healthcare. it’s a thing i look into explicitly when reading mission statements or talking to doctors. i see the shit she has to deal with as first hand as anyone who isn’t trans themselves can– i don’t pretend to know what it feels like, or that i have no blind spots, but as someone who intends to spend the rest of my life with this woman, trans misogyny hits at home, and hits hard.
[...] Via Voz: oh gawd… the stupid burns.. it really does. An otherwise fine cis centric woc blog with pretentions of trans inclusiveness (”Women and trans folk of color”) tries to [...]
it hits home but not you. Understand the difference. It is critical. What you are trying to do is appropriative. Stop it. It goes beyond simple concern for the -ism your partner faces and that YOU DON’T.
This blog is highly problematic, and I refuse to discuss anything at a place where I am insulted and thirdgendered and denied my womanhood.
come over here and talk. I refuse to talk in this cissupremacist shithole of a blog.
http://voz-latina.livejournal.com/12296.html
voz,
i have not insulted you, denied your womanhood or third-gendered you. in fact, i haven’t said anything about you– i clarified a previously statement i’d made in case it wasn’t as well worded as i’d hoped, and stated part of my investment and commitment to addressing the oppression of trans women.
likewise, i am not appropriating the experiences of trans women– i said explicitly, i don’t pretend to know what it feels like, or that i have no blind spots. of course it doesn’t affect me in the same way it affects my partner and other trans women, and it would be appropriative if i had claimed it did. but it is incredibly disrespectful of you to insinuate that my concern for this is as an abstract “-ism,” and to attack me without bothering to read what i actually wrote.
i’ll re-post this comment over at your blog, because you’ve asked to discuss this in your space as well, but i’m going to bow out of this conversation now. i also am not particularly interested in talking to someone who insults me and dismisses my experiences.
I saw this post and I wanted to pass over it cuz my head was hurting, but since voz has responded here, I think I should toss in some pennies too. Apologies in advance for my lack of coherence.
From what I’ve heard, women shelters/clinics/these sorts of places that serve marginalized women deny trans women/trans female genderqueers as the default policy. Unless they state up front that they are committed to serving trans women and they are part of their staff, it’s assured that trans women will be excluded. Starting a dialogue about identity to address this, is like trying to empty the ocean with a spoon. Useless, ridiculous, and oppressive. I mean, WTF? Are we on the same planet here?
i feel like getting a bunch of feedback to the effect of “y’all do amazing work and we really want to support you, but we can’t get behind the exclusion of trans women” could be a useful place to start.
It’s not a useful place to start because it’s basically going inside to politely chat over tea and cookies while there’s a bloody war on the streets. If there’s going to be a discussion about this, in a place with a lot of organizers who have connections, it’s to demand that people change policies to extend the protection of women’s organizations to trans women, so they are not blocked from accessing services or openly participating. (And their participation is NOT limited by cissexist demands on their bodies.) Discussions about exclusion around identity shit are minor, next to making sure women have access to healthcare, shelter and other necessary services.
it is incredibly disrespectful of you to insinuate that my concern for this is as an abstract “-ism,”
When presented with another instance of women of color being denied healthcare, the question to ask is not: “what does it mean that the project that is community organizing face of incite! is trans phobic?”
the response to make is not: “feedback to the effect of “y’all do amazing work and we really want to support you, but we can’t get behind the exclusion of trans women” ”
For those of us who are not trans women of color/trans female genderqueers of color, we will never be able to fully understand their struggles, we will never understand viscerally what it’s like to deal with this shit. But we must give them (as well as all marginalized peoples) the same fighting rage for justice, give them the same space to battle against oppression that we give ourselves, make ourselves accountable the same way we expect others to be accountable to us. When we don’t, their struggles remain an abstract -ism, no matter how good an ally we think we are.
For those of us who are not trans women of color/trans female genderqueers of color, we will never be able to fully understand their struggles, we will never understand viscerally what it’s like to deal with this shit. But we must give them (as well as all marginalized peoples) the same fighting rage for justice, give them the same space to battle against oppression that we give ourselves, make ourselves accountable the same way we expect others to be accountable to us. When we don’t, their struggles remain an abstract -ism, no matter how good an ally we think we are.
I am not disagreeing with you here. At all. And I truly apologize if my comment “feedback to the effect of “y’all do amazing work and we really want to support you, but we can’t get behind the exclusion of trans women” didn’t sound like I was giving the situation the weight and anger it deserves. The fact of the matter is, the New Orleans Women’s Health Center does provide some amazing services, and there are aspects of their model that are really great. That does not excuse their policies or exclusion of trans women in any way, or make it less fucked up. It’s just that both things are true– they are providing great services to some women, and discriminating against others. Perhaps writing to them is not an effective means of enacting change, but since they claim that they prioritize the needs of women of color, I thought it could be a place to start and way for cis women of color to use their privilege in a productive way by standing in solidarity with trans women of color.
My thought was not that we should “politely chat over tea” as you put it, but that we demand accountability and a change of policy. That said, I’ve never found raging to be a particularly useful method of communication or enacting change, either. I think it’s important to accord everyone a certain level of respect, even when we’re talking about intense shit, even when they are not according us or our loved ones the respect we deserve. At the end of the day, I can still say my piece without succumbing to the level of those who are oppressing and marginalizing the people I care about.
Perhaps writing to them is not an effective means of enacting change, but since they claim that they prioritize the needs of women of color, I thought it could be a place to start and way for cis women of color to use their privilege in a productive way by standing in solidarity with trans women of color.
An extra clarification if it’s needed– my point here to hold them accountable to the fact that women of color includes cis and trans women of color, and to say that they can’t truly claim that they are serving and prioritizing women of color if they don’t include ALL women of color.
Since the convo is going on here, I beg to differ with amapola on one not so small point:
Making privileged insensitive demands over at my blog, and giving yourself cookies for having a More pleasant Tone than I is very much an oppressor tactic. You came over to my LJ, and caused a world of hurt feelings for more than one woman, and then ran off.
When you come over and toss your weight around, backed up by cissexual privilege, and invest more emotion in attacking me with absolutely baseless accusations, then expecting me to smiles and swallow what you are shoveling is very much oppressive.
At the end of the day, I can still say my piece without succumbing to the level of those who are oppressing and marginalizing the people I care about.
your words, and I think we both know precisely who you are referring to. Do you really want a cookie for being able to be calmer than the people you hurt while inflicting pain? Is this really something you believe is a personal asset worth mentioning in a blog comment like you did here?
also, your backpedaling is not helping…you are moving the goalposts, and renaming a “conversation” among largely cis woc about “who they are” is not at all equal in any way to “demand accountability and a change of policy.”
when you act this way, solidarity is not possible. For that, you need to check your privilege big time.
please excuse my tardiness in replying to these comments. my access to internet is pretty limited in the past few weeks. i am just reading this thread now.
i am so sorry voz that you were attacked and insulted and denied your womanhood here and on your own blog. i am sorry that i insulted you (by calmly focusing on conversations around the issue of ‘trans-inclusion’ rather than focusing more clearly on actions to be taken. and denied your womanhood (by third gendering)
you know, when i read this post a couple of days ago, i went to the incite pages looking for this policy, side note, something. and i couldnt find it. i searched when i finally got back to the internet cafe today and i still cant find it.
its probably there and i am missing it still.
because i couldnt find the actual policy i guess i was calling out to those who are going to attend amc this year (which i will not be) and be in the incite! sessions to find out from the incite! organizers what is the actual policy.
listen there is already going to be a conversation about identity and incite! at amc. what i am suggesting is that someone (s) push these questions about trans phobic policies during the incite! sessions…
here is a copy of the incite! track for amc…
The INCITE! W/TPOC Track is a place to build a shared approach to ending violence against women of color through diverse media from blogging and graphic design to zine-making and textile design. With strategy sessions and hands-on workshops, the INCITE! Track provokes critical dialogue about gender and racial violence and the role of online and offline independent media in movement-building. [More info]
*
Building Strong Selves/Families/Community(ies) thru Subversive Media
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Cyberquilting: Women of Color Stitching Together a New Media Movement
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Mama’s Quilt : Mamis of Color Caucus
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Speaking for Ourselves: Transgender Identity in Independent Media
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Media through Movement :How to map our stories through our bodies and words
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How 2 Broke Queer Brown Femmes Organized a Radical Performance Tour and How You Can Too
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Using Stories to End Violence Everyday
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Research your way to a Youth lead social justice Campaign
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Disabled Women of Color Caucus
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In Our Own Image: Sex Worker-Made Media and the Story of $pread Magazine
i am re-reading my questions through the lens of this comment thread and i can hear where my tentative tone and focusing on the organization of incite rather than on the women who are being denied health care is definitely cis-centered.
part of my focus on incite! is that i am interested if a social justice organization which has historically excluded oppressed certain marginalized populations can then transform itself into being welcoming and affirming of those populations. in other words can incite! which began as a woman of color organization transform into a trans inclusive space. what does that transformation process look like? i as a community organizer and ngo/npo worker have frankly never seen an organization do it successfully whether it was with issues around race, gender, sexuality, class, etc. and yet i am hoping that incite! can. what has kept me interested in incite!’s work is i saw incite! making some quirky and interesting moves toward centering in their work and actions on the ground trans identity.
oh well. just tiny pin pricks in my big red balloon.
as for the subheading and the fact that yes, it still third genders. i hate that it does. and i want to fix it. i just can’t. i have tried several times but for some reason the changes i make wont actually appear on the blog. i think this has to do with the fact that the internet i have been using has just been too slow. hopefully soon we will have enough money that we can afford to have internet in our actual apartment.
i hate that this blog’s subheading is so insulting to folks i love.
there are several changes i want to make to the site once i am able to.
as for my lack of rage. you are right i dont feel rage. lately i am unable to rage about much. i feel apathetic about so much. there is a term for this. i forget what it is. for when you have just seen experienced too much trauma, primary and secondary, that you dont emote any more. quin is correct. this issue deserves rage.
i realize this response is not very precise. i am listening.
Thank you. I too am listening, and ready to talk.
Be advised, tho that as a twoc my experience with non transsexual woc has been extremely negative, and that any claim to solidarity must either take this into account, or toss me aside for a twoc who does not have these scars.
That said, is there Incite! in NYC? I am going there in a week, and would LOVE to videotape a short interview with them on this issue. Kind of a “Chica is steppin off the farm and goin’ to The Big City to ask WTF??” type thing.
if we could find some Incite! types willing to speak to me in NYC, I’ll do the rest, and post the video. I have a trans woman friend who does video production, a camera, a trip to NYC, and a place to stay.
All we need now is someone from Incite! to talk about this, and EXACTLY what should be done about it.
and I feel what u are saying about social justice orgs not successfully transforming themselves. That’s why I use ‘woc’ very loosely to describe myself. Gotta be seen as human by that crowd before I can hang with that label, and that is a ways off.
I hope you feel better.
@ admin
the quote about “male assigned” is here, in the section on sexual health http://nowhc.org/sexualhealthcare.html
I’ll edit the post to make it clearer.
(Argh, my computer ate my first comment…)
First, thank you for continuing the discussion and listening.
as for my lack of rage. you are right i dont feel rage. lately i am unable to rage about much. i feel apathetic about so much. there is a term for this. i forget what it is. for when you have just seen experienced too much trauma, primary and secondary, that you dont emote any more. quin is correct. this issue deserves rage.
“Fighting rage” wasn’t a good choice of words for what I was trying to describe, something else would be much better. I know when your mental and spiritual health is taxed or you’re dealing with depression (like I do) or other issues like that, actually feeling emotional anger is not possible and it’s ablist to ignore that. So I apologize for any pressure that line suggests.
What I was trying to describe is that fighting resistance that comes when people you love/feel connected to are being kicked down. (Which first means that we have to make a real commitment) Without it, or without trying to find it, things turn into a conversation about the exclusion of identity categories and what it does for the idea of diversity. Instead of addressing the material issues at hand first, we get into issues abut issues and issues around those issues. We get overwhelmed with abstract ideas and thought exercises that distract from an urgent problem.
Since the policy of a women’s clinic is the entry point here, I think that discussions about trans women/trans female genderqueers’ inclusion that are sparked from this one, should probably start with access to women’s organizations, services and leadership. Voz’s offer to do an interview and discuss with organizers about what needs to be done is the kind of place we need to start at. What we say about trans misogyny and transphobia doesn’t matter until it starts changing the policies on the ground. Especially now, as there’s a growing trend among progressives who think they’re really special for using the right pronouns or knowing that trans people exist, who say they’re cool with trans people’s genders…until those trans people (especially women) start entering their rightful gender spaces, and then all hell break loose.
What we say about trans misogyny and transphobia doesn’t matter until it starts changing the policies on the ground. Especially now, as there’s a growing trend among progressives who think they’re really special for using the right pronouns or knowing that trans people exist, who say they’re cool with trans people’s genders…until those trans people (especially women) start entering their rightful gender spaces, and then all hell break loose.
Quoted for extreme truth.
My principal concern at this point, is for the commenter’s twoc partner. If the commenter above is that indifferent to twoc health concerns, and only wants “conversation” among cis woc…I genuinely fear for her twoc partner.
I really do.
those trans people (especially women) start entering their rightful gender spaces, and then all hell break loose.
This is where cis woc and others hypocrisy becomes manifest. Sadly, their action seems to stop at having “conversations” among themselves at a convenient future date, because they are not invested in real results that save twoc lives, only jaw jacking about us and not with us.
This makes basic trust difficult, and undermines any claim to social justice that they have. Yes, I know all cis people do not feel that way, but if these policies stand, are those feelings really important? Does the much crowed about “good that they do” really trump the fact that they openly and unashamedly contribute to killing twoc by denying basic medical care?
i dont know any contacts for incite! nyc. although i do know that there is a chapter in nyc.
but i would be really interested to hear what is exactly incite!’s policy. and the reasons for it.
i have to say frankly that from what i know of ama and her partner, i am slightly jealous of ama. or maybe i am slightly jealous of her partner…?
bfp is refusing to take my posts at her blog out of moderation.
It’s her blog, and her right. She owns and controls that space.
But, with the dearth of twoc voices, is this really the best policy? Shouldn’t this discussion be happening in a twoc centered space?
yall know where to find my blog!
[...] NOWHC: More discussion. There was a fairly heated discussion about this at flipfloppingjoy yesterday. I’m trying to write my own response to it, but voz has a post about it here, which is 0ne place where the conversation about accountability and transparency should be happening at the moment. Also posts at Raven’s Eye here and here. [...]
Mai’a, if you can, you might let someone else access the blog to change the subheading.
This is an excellent review.